Article: 4507 of rec.aviation.misc Newsgroups: rec.aviation.announce,rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.misc Path: newshost.ncd.com!ncd.com!olivea!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!peck.com!bounce From: Mike Busch <76702.476@CompuServe.COM> Subject: AVSIG conference with Phil Boyer of AOPA Message-ID: <1993Sep10.063048.9409@peck.com> Followup-To: rec.aviation.misc Sender: geoff@peck.com (Geoff Peck) Organization: not supplied Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1993 06:30:48 GMT Approved: geoff@Peck.com Lines: 460 Xref: newshost.ncd.com rec.aviation.announce:26 rec.aviation.piloting:1767 rec.aviation.misc:4507 Here is an edited transcript of the 8/31 AVSIG conference with AOPA president Phil Boyer. Phil hit a wide range of topics in the conference, which lasted roughly an hour and a half. There were typically 40-50 on-line attendees in the conference room throughout the conference, although only a fraction of those actually asked questions while the rest lurked quietly. I think the transcript makes quite interesting reading. Best...Mike Mike Busch 76702.476@CompuServe.COM EDITED TRANSCRIPT OF AVSIG CONFERENCE WITH AOPA PRESIDENT PHIL BOYER 8/31/93 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Moderator-Mike: Welcome to this special AVSIG conference, with our special guest Phil Boyer, president of AOPA. This is a moderated conference, so please do not speak until it is your turn. Thanks to Phil for coming. Let's get started. Who has the first question? SDyer HPN: Hello Phil, you know that I've got to ask what the present status of the DUAT issue is before Congress. So that's what I'm asking. Any updates? Phil Boyer [AOPA]: Yes ... and how did I figure this would be the first question!! We have some very encouraging signs coming on this project. First, let me say that for the past 3 or 4 months the FUEL TAX and REGISTRATION FEE have occupied much of our time because we knew that DUATS was not on a short fuse. First, the FAA took the $10M of savings in their 1994 budget but it starts in the fourth quarter ... yet the DUATS contracts are thru FEB. Typical for the gov't. Next, we are working with CONGRESS (which holds the keys to the FAA budget to not allow them to remove this valuable service. Senator Lautenberg from NJ is on our side, and on Sept 14 I meet with Bob Carr, his counterpart in the House Aviation Approps. Comm. Also, the most recent news is a letter to me from JOE DEL BALZO that states he is convinced that FAA must relook at this decision and he promises action in the next 30 days, involving users, industry vendors, etc. The prognosis is very good on retention of this service, and AOPA has been working all angles. SDyer HPN: Great news, Phil. I got a nice response from our Congressman, Ham Fish, who has rejected the FAA's reasons. Thanks, again. ANDREW SCHUT: Mr Boyer, My name is Andrew Schut, and although I am not actively in AOPA, I am involved with instrumentation research with Michigan State University. My question to you is regarding ASOS. In front of me, I have a Central Region Technical Attachment Issued by the weather service office in Grand island, Nebraska. A direct quote from their comparison with manual observations vs. ASOS obs's reads: "When visibilities of less that 3 miles were reported in the manual observation, the ASOS reported a visliblity that was higher than the corresponding manual visibiity 80% of the time". Whats is AOPA's reaction to ASOS? Phil Boyer [AOPA]: Andrew, you have brought up one of the major efforts we must all fight in the 90's -- the NWS Modernization Program. It will be as big as the 80's decade to modernize the Flight Service stations. Last Sept we bgan this initiative, and we will hold NWS to Congress's mandate that the new automated WX be "equal or better than" than the old, human observations. They are not! We have hundreds of reports, just as you cite, mainly from the WX bureau people themselves. We are on this in a big, big way. Even at our home base FDK airport about a month ago -- automated WX stated ceiling clear below 12,000 and viz 10 miles -- I made an ILS approach to get into the airport! Leo Janssens [ASI]: Theres been a lot of traffic on AVSIG about DEA activities - accuations of breaking into ALL aircraft on a certain field. Have you had any complaints of this? What's your reaction? I think this is highly illegal. Yet, no one has come up with specifics for me to investigate on a safety basis. Comments? Phil Boyer [AOPA]: Leo, the main complaints we have looked into are the XPONDER tampering reported sometime earlier in AV CONSUMER. It's real tough to fight anything to do with the DRUG ENFORCEMENT AGENCY due to the Congress being afraid to tackle an issue where they might be portrayed as pro-drugs! John Sutherland: Phil I'm a private pilot who is being driven out by high prices. What can we do to help Tort reform along? Phil Boyer [AOPA]: John, On the same date as the CARR meeting on DUATS (coincidentally), the industry meets in DC to have Nancy Kassebaum introduce a second P.L. bill, and Glickman/Hansen will do the same in the House. There are 192 sponsors at this point on the House Bill -- and it's for a segment of the old (going nowhere) P.L. Bill -- just the Statue of Repose - which states that after 15 or 20 years you can no longer go after a manufacturer of a G.A. aircraft. This might be a small enough portion of the Bill to get past the huge opposition from the Trial Lawyers -- and if so, Russ Meyer at Cessna says just Statue of Repose will be enough for him to start single engine production again! Hal R. Kimbrough: Hello Phil. I am a new AOPA member. Do you think the FAA might soon act to eliminate the class III medical for VFR pilots of verylight aircraft? Phil Boyer [AOPA]: Hal ... possibly. There have been several proposals along these lines including no medical for a rec pilot. We'd like to see this happen and will encourage it when (and if) the rulemaking is proposed. Dick Small: To my knowledge no manufacturer has yet been approved for GPS receivers for use on IFR approaches. How close do you think we are to approval? Phil Boyer [AOPA]: Dick, yes, you are right. For one of the few times in history the FAA is leading the industry. All the reports I get is that manufacturers are all trying to be first (imagine the competitive advantage) and that we will see TSO C129 boxes in the fourth quarter and at the year's end. Mike Busch [SMX]: Phil, in AOPA's view, is TSO C129 reasonable or overly restrictive? Phil Boyer [AOPA]: Mike, we have really tried to figure out where to be on this and frankly, I don't know... If boxes are not certified by the new year we will go into action since the issue probably is answered by the rules being too restrictive. However, one must take the complaints from manufacturers along these lines as they rush to try to comply and be first! Rick Burgess: How is the Differential GPS demonstration going? Phil Boyer [AOPA]: Absolutely sensational! We have been flying CAT I GPS precision approaches in our BEECH BONANZA to runways with absolutely no app and when flown in tandem with an ILS it is transparent which one is better -- however, $$$$ are not so similar: $80K for a DIFF unit to supply the corrections and at all 4 runway ends for FDK - while an ILS is a million dollars, plus on each runway end. Erik B.: Phil, a week or two ago we were participating in a thread which dealt with the possibility of ACARS-type equipment for light aircraft, maybe even affordable. Can you expand on that idea? Phil Boyer [AOPA]: Erik ... Data Link will be the very next tecnnological issue we must all address - and it's hardly known to any members right now. It is essential for DIFF GPS and to send the correction signal. At MIT I have seen demos of using the datalink to give real time radar pics to a C172 without a radar unit. It can carry WX info, flight planning, clearances, even transmit your position (by GPS) to the ground with the accuracy of MODE S. It is coming -- ACARS is just a form. Mike Busch [SMX]: Phil, does AOPA have a position on Mode S datalink vs alternative datalink vehicles and retention of ATCRBS? Phil Boyer [AOPA]: Mike, without all the alternatives available yet, and satellites themselves might provide the answer, we are against the expense of MODE S for G.A. -- none of us should link MODE S and data transmission as one and only alternative. It is not. Robert Thurston : I am working on the FAA's AAS program and regularly see firsthand the shortcommings of the present ATC system. Why has the AOPA taken such a negative stand toward modernizing a system which is near its capacity? Phil Boyer [AOPA]: Bob, We have not. You hear us wrong. We merely say that the $5B program (AAS) is behind schedule, over budget, etc. It is a critical component of the NAS PLAN and frankly the largest $$$ expenditure. Let's get on with it, and anything that large can bear some economies as technology improves, etc. AOPA merely has echoed Congress and the GAO in managing the project on a more efiicient basis -- and even IBM and the FAA are critically involved in that process since early this year! Leo Janssens [ASI]: On the car vs. aiplane safety for GA, when were the last studies done and what does AOPA have on this? Again a lot of traffic on AVSIG on this recently. I think it time to study this again in light of increased GA training emphasis. Phil Boyer [AOPA]: Leo -- I don't have the data at my fingertips right now, and don't want to make up numbers I might remember wrong. As you are aware, GA safety is better than ever and continues to improve. The AOPA ASF can get into that data and we can supply it to you for AVSIG if you like. Charles Tackett: I am an air traffic controller at a flight service station and I have seen first hand some of the problems with DUATS and the problems inexperienced pilots have diseminating the information. Does AOPA support doing away with Flight Service Stations in their present form and relying more on DUATS? Phil Boyer [AOPA]: Charles -- NO (boy, am I glad for this opportunity to clear up some misconceptions here). AOPA feels the primary source for all WX info and FP filing for the foreseeable future is the FSS system, but supports DUATS as a cost-effective supplement - we'd even like the FAA to add FAX to this type of briefing. People like yourself could then be used to do what you are trained to do: "BRIEF" pilots, rather than just read them the same data they can get off a PC or FAX machine. We are for a system that uses 1-800 WX BRIEF -- "Punch one for a briefer, two for FAX, and three for computer data". Ernst R. Kosower: Phil, please comment on AOPA's effort on saving airports. I read an editorial the other day in a local Chicago newspaper. that was discussing the proposed closure of Meigs Field to be used as a park and the paper was for it. Phil Boyer [AOPA]: Ernst, We have an airports department with several people and they work on some 400 airport issues all the time. We are very aware of Meigs and the SUN TIMES article -- these are usually on our desks the same day they appear. Tonight, if I had not had THIS commitment, I would have been on WTTW in Chicago for a debate on this very issue. To make that kind of commitment should tell you where we are on critical airport closures We already have compiled the data on MEIGS, and are ready to fight this one to the bitter end. This is not the first time that MEIGS has come up for closure. In 1978 when I managed WLS-TV I did editorials against the closure. Rick Burgess: How can we lower the cost of Flying? Phil Boyer [AOPA]: Rick, this is one that keeps me awake at nights. I wish I had a way to deal with the FBOs - fuel prices, rental rates, etc ...and the rising cost of parts. Yet, we do not - that's not within our power to change. So I guess I have to rely on the things we do have the ability to attack Like saving every owner $600 over the next 5 years by defeating the precedent setting federal AC registration fee. Mike Busch [SMX]: Phil, what is your sense of the future of G.A.? Is this decline a secular or cyclical one? Are the "traditional" aircraft manufacturers dead, or will they rise again? Is the future in certificated Lancairs and Glasairs? Phil Boyer [AOPA]: Mike -- boy, hand me the easy ones! No, this is not cyclical. We have not seen this kind of decline in a quarter century and that was a period when there just wasn't enough mass. I think the future lies in getting more people interested in learning to fly. This will drive the BIG 3 manufacturers back in the biz, due to demand for product, regardless of P.L. Reform. And, we'll see an interesting mix of the tranditional AC and the kitbuilts that you mention. Certification is getting easier, as evidenced from the TC given at EAA-OSH this year. Al VanZee: Would an unleaded aviation fuel based on autofuel lower fuel prices? Phil Boyer [AOPA]: Yes, and it does for some with the STC right now ... however, Al, it does not solve the problem for people with airplanes like Mike's TSIO520s. They just have not made an unleaded fuel yet that will take care of the high performance piston singles and twins (about 40,000) in the fleet of 200,000 G.A. aircraft. Corl Leach [CRP/NGP: First off, congrats on the great job you're doing at AOPA Is ther any joint effort between AOPA and the differnt state organizations such as the Missouri Pilots assn, etc. or are teh different groups fighting their battles separately? Phil Boyer [AOPA]: Corl ... Thanks for the compliment, and please don't judge the AOPA Pres by the rapid typing full of mispellings and spurious characters. We are very involved with all kinds of groups -- the battle is too great to work alone anymore. AOPA is very encouraging of State and Local groups since they are valuable as voters of the people who make local rule. Marco Velez: Earlier there was some discussion about GPS. Are we buying into this technology since it is not yet a standard and subject to military de-rating? Phil Boyer [AOPA]: The DOD scrambles the signal and the FAA is now working on ways to correct it with DIFF signal. This is our efficient gov't in action??? Seriously, when all is said and done -- perhaps the DOD will feel this is stupid to scramble when the world can also unscramble, and we will end up with one signal. D.O.D. and D.O.T have a joint task force right now to study this. Rick Burgess: If we could share the cost of flying we could fly more and be more proficient. Why do we always get flack from the FAA and FBO's. How about a program from AOPA that helps us fly together? Phil Boyer [AOPA]: Rcik -- Hold on ... we are working on it, even has an internal code name AOPA PROJECT PILOT! Corl Leach [CRP/NGP: I came in a little late. Has anyone asked about a merger between AOPA Online and AVSIG? It was a debate here a few weeks ago. Any comments? Phil Boyer [AOPA]: Corl ... AOPA ONLINE is in it's "growing pains" startup phase. It's designed to serve a slightly different need than AVSIG, and therefore on a different system, basis, etc. We like the flexibility to change that offers rather than the fairly rigid CIS format that we studied quite carefully. Corl Leach [CRP/NGP: I'll buy that. Just thought I'd bring it up for those who propsed the merger. Mike Busch [SMX]: Would you care to comment on the Clinton tax/budget as a whole, and whether the current administration is a friend of GA or not? Phil Boyer [AOPA]: The current admin has not shown a great deal of kindness to G.A. or aviation to date. We are in for a rough ride -- and this is just the beginning. Look for user "cost recovery" to be the buzz words for at least the next four years. Did you realize that CLINTON'S rating went up 10 points in the last poll taken yesterday ??? This is the only President I know whose rating dropped when he was placed in office, and when he went on a 10 day vacation it rose 10 points!!! E.J. Peiker [AEG]: I recently visited the Albuquerque FSDO I asked whether the "kinder and gentler" FAA has done anything in the way that they treat violations. His answer was that they haven't changed anything. What is AOPA doing to help the plight of the GA pilot in this respect? Phil Boyer [AOPA]: E.J. -- All our member surveys indicate they sense a change since Busey's "kindler and gentler" initiatives ... but there are bad apples in every organization. AOPA hears horror stories each week - you should have seen the one I was involved in last week in a remote portion of ALASKA. We just ask pilots to keep us informed of the detail and we follow thru on the ones that have sufficient data to track. The entire remedial program is a result of industry and user group efforts to confront enforcement problems. Also, don't forget AOPA's win last year on CIVIL PENALTIES, which at least gives a fair hearing on the appeal process. John Wilson: Hello Sir. I am currently a student pilot and going to college for my A&P. Since the industry seems to be in somewhat of a decline what options would be available to someone like myself. And what are the advantages to joining an organization like AOPA? Phil Boyer [AOPA]: John -- You are probably smarter than all of us by studying for an A&P license rather than going after the left seat. The average age of the 200K planes in the G.A. fleet is 27 years old. Boy, will you have an income for some years to come. My plug for joining AOPA is that no one in G.A. can fight the huge amount of opposition and rulemaking alone. Pursure your career repairing planes, flying them, whatever -- but, use us to protect the environment (or help to protect it) ... and we offer a pretty good G.A. magazine to boot! Al VanZee: Is there anything any of us can do to encourage the DOD to surrender more GPS capability for Civil Aviation use? Phil Boyer [AOPA]: Al ... If and when the right timing comes, we'll let you know -- there is no initiative right now, so I would not peak early on this support. But thanks for the offer. KURT HANKE: I was wondering what advice Phil would have for someone interested in starting a production aircraft company? Such as who to contact in the FAA first, what resources are available for the new company, etc. Phil Boyer [AOPA]: Kurt ... I would call AOPA at 1-800-USA-AOPA and ask for one of our TECH SPECIALISTS. We have a large library and they give give you excellent direction. Mike Busch [SMX]: Phil, please tell us a little about the upcoming AOPA Expo. Phil Boyer [AOPA]: Mike ... AOPA EXPO will be in Orlando Nov 3 -5. It already is a record breaker in number of exhibits, number of aircraft on display, etc. This is a show for serious pilots, and it has grown each year in the last three that I have been associated with it. Besides numerous seminars, this will be the first chance to hear from the new FAA ADMIN who will have been in office long enough to have some opening observations. Rick Burgess: Are the aircaft on display flying into Disney? Phil Boyer [AOPA]: Rick -- They are flying into a STOL PORT near Disney ... we are trying to get them onto the parking lot at the DOLPHIN HOTEL, but in DISNEY fashion they are "Mickey Mousing" us on the $$$ to do this. Therefore, they maybe a short bus ride away, unless we can negotiate a better deal. Just seems like $40,000 is a little expensive to get 15 minutes closer! Moderator-Mike: Phil, I think you've worn them out! Thanks a million for coming tonight. Go soak your fingers in epsom salts. Can we schedule you for another one in, say, six months? Phil Boyer [AOPA]: Thanks, Mike and all for having me, and let's do this twice a year as you suggest. Moderator-Mike: Great! Leo Janssens [ASI]: Great too! Moderator-Mike: The TV interview would have been easier, I'm sure You're a great sport for doing this. Phil Boyer [AOPA]: Much easier!!!! Smitty: Good work Phil On AOPA Magazine too! Phil Boyer [AOPA]: Thanks ... Smitty -- but the credit goes to Mark Twombly (editor in chief) and his fine staff and freelance writers. Burt Blosser [OSU]: Keep us flying Phil! Moderator-Mike: Many thanks to Phil and to all who participated tonight. An edited transcript will appear in the AVSIG library tomorrow, and will be billboarded on the news flash when it's available. Good night to everyone! This formal conference is now officially closed.